On why our rhetoric vis-a-vis the Iranian elections should change.
Unlike bread riots which may grow proportionally to the violence they are met with, electoral revolts weather away rapidly after they peak.
I consider the Iranian electoral revolt to have peaked this week, which started off with seven dead on Monday, and will end with large demonstrations, dubbed ‘the Sea of Green’ in reference to Mousavi’s supporters colour of choice, around the country and abroad over the weekend - and the additional loss of life that we watched live from Iran.
The world public opinion has displayed unusually strong levels of interest and involvement in the outcome of the June 12th elections, and the ensuing protests across Iran.
Rallies and demonstrations on the streets on western capitals are composed mostly of locals sympathetic to the Iranian people’s demands; a sympathy that was largely non-existent two weeks ago.
Western television and media figures, whom we didn’t know had political opinions, have expressed their clear and unequivocal electoral preference for the Iranian election.
Websites created green outlays. Even Google chimed in, hastily adding a Farsi translation facility on its Google Translate website to facilitate the dissemination of the information trickling out of Iran.
This popular interest is nothing short of impressive, and it is heartwarming to realise the sympathy that the Iranian people has gained over just a few days, a sympathy which I hope will outlast the current crisis.
(Though sympathy for the Ukraine or Georgia hasn't outlived their 'Orange' and 'Rose' revolutions by long).
But the scenario which we don’t seem to consider, and which unfortunately appears more plausible everyday, is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s victory will be confirmed, and he will remain as president for four more years.
If - when - that happens, the simplistic ‘Mousavi good, Ahmadinejad bad’ dichotomy can only backfire, translating into unprecedented anti-Iranian hostility, which the current geopolitical climate simply cannot handle.
President Obama was elected on a platform of dialogue and reconciliation; the ‘Iran’ chapter of his strategy remains the most explicitly cautious, unsurprising given the strength of the -largely republican - anti-Iran current within his own Congress and the hostility displayed towards Iran by West Jerusalem. An American popular backlash could tip the balance towards the retraction of an amenable Iran policy back into the confrontation zone.
In parallel, the returning belligerent Iranian leadership, severely demonized over this crisis, will be even less amenable to ouvertures from countries it will see as having accused it of fraud and openly supported its opponents.
As an international community and world media, we must tone down the rhetoric. Our governments must not declare political preferences in a foreign country - a thing we would find outrageous if positions were inversed. The media must do its best to provide nothing more than facts, and attempt to reestablish a balance in reporting - political rallies and public declarations occur in both camps.
Because truth is, whatever transpires of this crisis, the Islamic Republic and its institutions will remain largely the same. The leading lines of its internal and foreign policy are unlikely to change drastically.
Is there a risk of a self-fulfilling prophecy here - that accommodating the idea of a second Ahmadinejad term could weaken the Iranian opposition and help Ahmadinejad to power? Highly doubtful. The influence of our media on decisions to be taken at the top of the Iranian political pyramid is probably negligible.
As private individuals, we are allowed to express political passion as we see fit, even if we lack the full picture. But as responsible governments, media and international community as a whole, we are compelled to stick to facts, and more importantly - to think beyond a 24 hours window before we act.



26 comments:
This popular interest is nothing short of impressive, and it is heartwarming to realise the sympathy that the Iranian people has gained over just a few days, a sympathy which I hope will outlast the current crisis.
It seems that they have gained sympathy for many more than just themselves. I am not a sentimental person and don't really care for this stuff, but I have to say that it looks like it was a ground shaking event in terms of public perception, in the West in particular. I am surprised you are failing to appreciate it
"As private individuals, we are allowed to express political passion as we see fit, even if we lack the full picture. But as responsible governments, media and international community as a whole, we are compelled to stick to facts, and more importantly - to think beyond a 24 hours window before we act."
... Honestly, Mohamed, I didn't know your blog posts targeted governments and were meant to give them advice. I thought your readership was mainly composed of private individuals wherever they may be, whatever they're doing and whatever positions they occupy.
"Unlike bread riots which may grow proportionally to the violence they are met with, electoral revolts weather away rapidly after they peak."
I don't think that what we're witnessing right now is just an electoral revolt. It might have started as one, but it grew way beyond that, which doesn't mean that this mobilization might not yield concrete results in the end. No, it's true that Ahmadinejad might be the president of Iran for four more years (though I don't think it's very likely), but everyone agrees that the current mobilization and the current positions taken by the reformists will make things much harder for him during his term. But what's more important is that the process of radicalization and polarization within the Iranian society (which goes beyond the electoral results and has been there at least since 1999) will intensify, or at least persist. People abroad should keep on supporting this process of radicalization beyond Ahmadinejad and Mousavi, and beyond Khamenei and Rafsanjani.
I also want to say that 'Green' and Mousavi have become symbols for ideals and demands that go beyond a person and an electoral campaign.
Finally, if you're really interested so much in the reactions of the international community, I'd say that the current crisis and the sympathy everyone is showing towards the Iranian people have formidably matured the international community and its perceptions of Iran: they helped people to a large extent realize the complexity of the Iranian society and political system; they have made people realize that Iran is not a monstrous monolith; they helped them perceive the difference between the Iranian people and the Iranian ruling elite. In my view, this will help the international community renew its support for the Iranian people and its interest in Iranian politics. And mind you, this will not take the shape of "let's liberate the Iranians by force!" (like in Iraq's case, though it's even clear that the sweeping majority of the international community was opposed to that), because, unlike Iraqis, Iranians were able to mobilize themselves and defy their own regime, which will help people realize that the best and most sustainable kind of freedom is that obtained by the people themselves.
Nobody:
"A ground shaking event"? Could you please elaborate because i failed to see the exceptionality of these last street demonstrations. And I'm not being facetious here. Just please elaborate: what makes those last demonstrations so exceptional compared to previous ones? If you could give me hard facts and not just impressions and emotions please?
And as for "popular interest" , "sympathy", the "matured international community" and other feel good emotions from the rest of the world, i wouldn't count too much on those feelings to make a difference in this world. It's just media and marketing BS if you want my opinion.
On the Official Google Blog page, Google just put up a page titled: "Google Translates Persian" ! Like most of the people "interested" in Iran, they speak persian over there, not Farsi! Yeah, right a lot of interest. The same kind of interest given the Arabo-Islamic world by the self-proclaimed "orientalists"! Honestly, i think the world would be a better place if people stopped meddling in others' business and lives, trying to tell them what is the best way to live on this planet, what type of system, what religion,the pace of change...: do what you want in your home, let me be in mine!
And when i think that it took 7 dead people to reach that level of sympathy, interest, whatever BS Hollywood feel good emotion, i urge people to think twice before taking to the streets for their ideas .
What Mousavi and his followers fail to recognize is that he bares a responsibility on those deaths for inciting them. I know that for them it's just part of the fight, an existential fight: FREEDOM! Hogwash! They themselves would have sacrificed their lives for the cause! Yeah right! Where are they now? still in the streets? I think not. They all felt the wind turn and went straight back to the comfort of their home and family and loved ones.
But does anyone consider the tremendous loss of life for those family, who today, while i'm typing away from the comfort of my home are still crying their souls out? Does anyone consider the gripping and reaping pain inflicted to those who have lost a brother, a son, a sister, a wife?
7 dead human beings for what? really for what? this is not an existential fight! this is not a fight for life or death! 7 dead for what? For the world's sympathy, interest, understanding and encouragement? they can keep it!
As for the ones who are still tempted to make a "revolution", the ones who have the arrogance to think that their lives can matter that way, i urge them to think twice before taking to the streets again. I urge them to think what those 7 dead fathers, sons, daughters, wives would say about their participation had they been informed of the outcome of such demonstrations!?
Keep your emotions and outrage for yourself and turn them into something productive and beneficial to you, your family, your loved ones and your community! And good and change will spread, one individual at a time, one family at a time, one community at a time, one country at a time! Taking to the streets is so passe!
With Love,
Bruno.
Mo -
I am amused to note that I largely agree with you regarding the Iranian elections. People should just butt out and shut their flapping gobholes; Persia is a unique place with unique constraints and a unique culture. Persians are even more difficult to understand than the Arabs; the chauvinistic, misogynic tribal honor-shame thing is less unnatural to Europeans and Jews than the semi-supra-ethnic, imperial/religious identity exacerbated by the unique Persian history, culture and other factors. Frankly, the more I learn about Iran and Iranians the more I think they're closer to Russians (in the Imperial sense of the word) than anyone else.
NB - they provided temporary circus for the rest of the world. Soon the circus will move on: Kim Jong Il will get so pissed at Iranian clerics for stealing his attention that he'll fire a couple of missiles at Japan or something. Or, dunno, Arabs will attack Israel and claim we're drinking their blood and digging under their gardens or whatever once again. Or the sovereign debt crisis will hit. It's all BS.
Bruno - come on, man, they've had like 20 killed. If these people were on the roads driving cars rather than walking and waving green things, they'd probably have more dead. So on average, ya Bruno, go to the streets and protest or go to the streets and drive, you're a dead long pig anyway. If you want to live, stay (in your fortified) home and order your foods online :)
Nobody,
At least here in Europe people rallied for the Ukrainian orange revolution - a 'ground shaking event in terms of public perception' as you say. But there's very little remaining of this. So excuse me for not being all chirpy today...
Soha,
Did you not know I'm on the daily reading of the Elysee? :)
Well, my declarations and yours are probably less influential than Merkel and Sarkozy's. Hence why I wrote 'governments'.
I do hope the mobilisation yields results, truly. But 'revolution' as in reversal of the 1979 order? I doubt it. Everything remains in the cadre of the Islamic Republic system. The supreme leader will remain supreme.
Bruno
What I'm interested in when I see Google et al. expressing their support - I wonder where they were during the Iraq war.
But for people to take the streets and not care about their own personal safety, to 'die for an idea' - is remarkable and worthy or our respect, support, and sympathy.
Interesting post as usual, Mohamed.
Bruno, I agree with you that the sympathies from the West will not help the Iranians, at least not now. The sympathy might be just a passing phase. But I don't see what the reformist could've done besides protesting. And how do you change an oppressing regime?
Helen
Internet/Twitter/Rumor has it over 100 killed. We'll probably never know. But I can't adopt the cynical "20 dead=traffic crash" mentality either. I watched that girl who was shot in the gut die on YouTube and over and over again on France 24.
I think Soha has hit the nail on the head. Its much bigger than just the elections, and its a culmination of a lot of rage with the current regime. Nonetheless, tyrannical, dictatorial regimes with secret police and street thugs win every time, so while I'm rooting for the Greens, and admire their spirit, I don't think they're going to really change things in the long run, other than a lot of them ending up dead or in prison.
Why are THESE demonstrations different from others before them? Because they're comprised of a much wider group of people, instead of "just" students and teachers. Its starting to look and feel like a mass movement rather than an elitest exercise.
Besides, the State Department and the CIA are FOR the status quo (Ahmadinejad et al)on the ground that Moussavi is the devil-they-don't-know, and they throw around the word "destabilization" a lot (meaning the oil supply might dry up) and whatever THAT crowd is FOR, I'm against.
Go Greens!!
Bruno said...
Nobody:
"A ground shaking event"? Could you please elaborate because i failed to see the exceptionality of these last street demonstrations. And I'm not being facetious here. Just please elaborate: what makes those last demonstrations so exceptional compared to previous ones? If you could give me hard facts and not just impressions and emotions please?
First, because they seem to be changing the Western public's perception of Islam. Westerners are used to see crowds shouting Allahu Akbar demonstrating against Danish cartoons or trashing Western embassies. This is the first time when the Westerners see this thing in such a context. What most Westerners understand from this is another matter, but humans are visual creatures. They get mostly impressed by pictures.
Two, because Iran in some ways is a trendsetter in this region. Their Islamic revolution started the mess. So it's only natural to expect the reversal to also come from there.
Three, why do you care so much? I am Israeli and I barely follow this stuff even though it affects us directly. I can understand Westerners who go over board with their sympathy for this green revolution, but you, what's your business in all this? You are posting with such a passion as if you have something very important and world changing to say. Who are you to judge these people and their responsibilities?
Mo-ha-med said...
Nobody,
At least here in Europe people rallied for the Ukrainian orange revolution - a 'ground shaking event in terms of public perception' as you say. But there's very little remaining of this. So excuse me for not being all chirpy today...
This was not my point but I should say that I took a round across Arab blogs I know to see what they have to say about this and was surprised to find you bleating. Now you expect people to be experts on Iran. I bet even if crowds come in droves wearing green towels with Koranic inscriptions on their heads and shouting Allahu Akbar, they will still fail to make you happy.
Abu Sa'ar said...
Mo -
I am amused to note that I largely agree with you regarding the Iranian elections. People should just butt out and shut their flapping gobholes; Persia is a unique place with unique constraints and a unique culture.
I wish some Israelis could have been just as smart on the issues related to Darfur and hosting Darfurian refugees in Israel.
By the way, Abu
I don't share your "the imperial/religious identity exacerbated by the unique Persian history" theory. I think the Shah's foreign policy is very characteristic of what this Persian thing is about. The Shah was a friend of everybody, settled a couple of territorial disputes with the Arabs, recognized Israel but was on good terms with the Saudis and Gulf Arabs, used to be a close US ally and yet was on friendly terms with the Soviets too. The Persians are good merchants, they are not imperialists. When this Islamic revolution runs its course, the Persians will be back to what they were always good at - trading.
Mo-ha-med:
"But for people to take the streets and not care about their own personal safety, to 'die for an idea' - is remarkable and worthy or our respect, support, and sympathy."
Would you then agree with suicide bombers' philosophy and actions? they're the epitome of self-sacrifice for worthy causes. Most of their causes are noble even to western standards (be it the freedom of Chechnya, Iraq Palestine...)
I know it sounds very rhetorical but that's exactly why i think the mere fact that an idea/cause is good is not necessarily ground for risking one's life. Especially when the individual knows so little about the real power brokers in politics, the many behind the scene plotting and secret deals, bargaining and scheming!
Again, why aren't those calling for more demonstrations taking to the streets too? (beside a few of course. I'm talking about the big shots like Mousavi et al. yeah i know supposedly they're ALL under house arrest. It's always the simple Joe, or Ali, that has to pay the consequences. The others are too busy scheming , weighing in on the balance of powers, trying to figure out where the wind blows, how can i get more people in the streets so the other camp will fear me and count me in as part of the major players?...!)
Anonymous...Helen (not so anonymous after all...just kidding):
"what the reformists could've done besides protesting. And how do you change an oppressing regime?"
Politics is a game of social psychological games on the masses. Masses are always the tools of political parties and politicians. If you have them behind you, you're a major player to reckon with. The question becomes then how to get them behind you. So to me at least, the most important thing is educate people on this simple but paramount truth. Be it in Iran or elsewhere. Masses need to be aware of the manipulations behind any election, and the emotions used to move them one way or the other.
In the case of Iran, i say there is a political and governmental structure, no matter how one feels about them, and it needs to be followed. The The Guardian Council in charge of checking for irregularities invited all contesting parties to publicly, again publicly take part to a recount. Which they turned down? Why? Why not take part and give publicly proof of your allegations? is there an agenda behind such an attitude?
Throwing doubts in people's mind about the fairness of the elections and then not attending a public recount is non-sense, divisive and utterly unfair.
The other issue is the one that consists of accusing without proof. In most democratic countries, there are penalties and consequences for that. You don't accuse someone and then don't bring actual proof beside, feelings and emotions: " Oh i'm pretty sure the elections were rigged! i'm sure there were irregularities! that can't be....." this is libelous and very harmful in any society. You accuse someone: bring the proof!
Please read this Wired article about the science behind the numbers (i doubt Wire can be accused of collusion with the enemy): Crunching Iranian Election Numbers For Evidence of Fraud
Just impressions, convictions, assertions, but no hard evidence, beside the ones noted by the Guardian Council for a number of vote far below the 11 millions alleged by the Mousavi camp!
Now as to how one changes an oppressive regime:
history teaches us. When you don't have much to lose, you just go at the regime till death. And obviously, today Iranians had much more to lose to keep taking to the streets. The stakes where not as high as in 1979. No matter what the western MSM tells us: Iranians are much more concerned about mass widespread corruption than democracy western style at this point.
aliyah06:
Yeah! the problem is that, as you say, "it feels like", to you. But it is not! So let's stop analyzing and understanding things according to what or how we feel instead of how things are.
As for elitist my dear Aliyah, i'm not sure it wasn't just a certain class of Iranian society. If you look at the restricted news coverage we've been having in the West, people in the streets of Tehran didn't appear to me as part of the socially average iranian citizen! Or did the western media wanted for once at last to portray muslims as good looking, dressed in sexy low cut D&G Jeans and beautiful!
I might be wrong, but if it was truly an exercise in democratic will from the Iranian regardless of their social status, i doubt we would jump from "the thousands of hundreds" of demonstrators in the streets to "3,000" on Saturday!
When the masses are ripe and ready, you have 1789 or 1979 but certainly not 2009.
Nobody:
Your perception of Islam is just like most others' in the west: one day it is ugly scruffy dark skinned nuts screaming on your TV screen while you're quietly having dinner. The other, it's sexy beautiful throngs of D&G clad "westernized" elites!
The western public perception of Islam, i'm afraid has not changed with the last events. On the contrary: "they're still a bunch of savages that take to the streets and set everything on fire, when they get mad or demand change!" (that eagerness on the part of the rioters to show their bloodied heads and hands to the camera is not helping the image!Blood! Blood! everywhere!)
"Their Islamic revolution started the mess"
Excuse me? what mess are you talking about? 1979 or 1948?
"why do you care so much? I am Israeli and I barely follow this stuff"..."You are posting with such a passion as if you have something very important and world changing to say."
Yes i am indeed passionate about the subject. Namely the loss of life. is it so bad!? Historical reflection and consciousness affords us the ability to intellectually disengage the moment, in which, we find ourselves immersed and engrossed and to transcend the present moment. Those young kids cannot afford this distance and i see older, more cunning politicians taking advantage of this for the sole purpose of scoring votes! to satisfy their big egos exclusively. Yes, Sorry Nobody if i do mind when people die and it's not worth it. Just like those young American soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan today! Sorry for caring!
And would you please Nobody tell me how the hell your Israeli citizenship bares any weight in the conversation? how is that supposed to affect your views or mine of you?
Its not just a numbers game, Bruno--the fact that the regime has been forced to outlaw public gatherings (in a violation of a constitution which allows for them precisely because the Shah did not); the fact that despite live fire, tear gas, mass arrests, public beatings and murder, people are still gathering to protest in smaller, more mobile groups, and still flinging stones at the Basiji, shows this isn't over. The regime outlawed mourning for Neda Agha-Soltan because they were afraid! Afraid of a mass gathering that could erupt into more rage and grief.
And it is becoming obvious that the vote was rigged: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/21/iran.vote.survey/index.html (Chatham House report), which calls into question the legitimacy of the regime both in Iran and internationally.
China makes no pretense about being a democracy supported by the people; neither does Yemen, Libya, Syria or Egypt for that matter.
Iran, OTOH, has held itself out as the Islamic Republic of the future, responsive to its peoples' needs, cognizant of its special role in Islam, free of the evils which plagued Iran during the Shah, offering Islamic freedom, justice and democracy to all and supported unconditionally by its people......and now its shooting its children dead in the streets, siccing thugs on nonviolent demonstrators, banning public protest, engaging in mass arrests, beatings, torture and killing, confining or expelling foreign press while arresting local journalists and bloggers, and employing its own secret police to track down "enemies of the state" (that's everyone who disagrees with Ahmadinejad & Co.).
Shades of the Shah! Iran is being publicly undressed as a corrupt, evil, ruthless police state in religious drag. So its leaders wear turbans instead of helmets; its Supreme Leader wears a turban instead of a crown. Iran is unmasked for the world to see that democracy, justice, freedom and Islamic values are just Newspeak covering the same sins as the former autocratic, ruthless dictatorship. And election fraud only proves that it is every bit as illegitimate a regime as the Shah's.
Aliyah - "And election fraud only proves that it is every bit as illegitimate a regime as the Shah's"
Except for being a rightly guided - and divinely ordained - regime.
Abu
Yeah, I'm surprised too. :)
Helen
Thank you!
And I don't know how you change an oppressive regime. Demonstrating?
Aliyah06
They're not changing the regime!
But yes, it is starting to look like something bigger than a simple demo. The Greens are just the focal point, but perhaps it goes far beyond them...
And i would agree that the current regime is just as fucked up as the Shah's.
Bruno
"Would you then agree with suicide bombers' philosophy and actions?"
Depending on the philosophy. And on the actions. Dying 'for' something is worthy of respect; killing innocents is not.
I fail to see or understand why dying 'for' something is worthy of respect? Why or what exactly, philosophically or spiritually makes the 'dying', worthy of respect from the other fellow humans? What would or should compel me or any other human being to have respect for someone who decides to die 'for' something? is it the 'dying' in and of itself? or is the the 'for'?
We all agree i'm sure, even the supporters of the winner that the current regime has major flaws. One of them being corruption. It was main topic of the running campaigns although nowhere in the Western Media was it debated as a major 'issue'. It was only all about the clerics, the religiousness, the oppression of the clerics, women's freedoms.... Like that and that only was the root of Irans' pblms.
But let's not loose our sense of proportion here. Ask anyone in Iran who experienced both regimes, the current and the Shah's with its Savak, and maybe we'll have a clearer sense of how Iranians fare today compared to under the Shah's yoke?! Let's never forget history. For “He who forgets history is condemned to relive it”.
Iran is a country with problems but also with accomplishments. Iran is a country like any other who has the right to progress and evolve at its own pace, under its own will and conditions and not dictated by a few who have a definite and ultimate view on how one country ought to live, with their specific timeline.
9 years ago the Economist Cover was: Iran's Second Revolution? Yeap. An other shot in teh dark i guess.
I know how anxious some are to see Iran radically change. But no radical change is stable. So for those who still want to take to the streets and clearly can't stand staying in Iran, just follow Ahmad Batebi across the mountains or take a boat out of the country. Otherwise, for crying out loud, go with teh flow and don't let those politicians use you as collateral damage for a fight they're hardly ever willing to die!
Bruno said...
Nobody
Your perception of Islam is just like most others' in the west: one day it is ugly scruffy dark skinned nuts screaming on your TV screen while you're quietly having dinner. The other, it's sexy beautiful throngs of D&G clad "westernized" elites!
Bruno
Please quote one of my comments above where I am talking about my perception of Islam.
And would you please Nobody tell me how the hell your Israeli citizenship bares any weight in the conversation? how is that supposed to affect your views or mine of you?
All I can do is to copy paste it again as you seem to be slow. But I hope that after we go through this for a couple of times you will finally get it.
I am Israeli and I barely follow this stuff even though it affects us directly. I can understand Westerners who go over board with their sympathy for this green revolution, but you, what's your business in all this? You are posting with such a passion as if you have something very important and world changing to say. Who are you to judge these people and their responsibilities?
But let's not loose our sense of proportion here. Ask anyone in Iran who experienced both regimes, the current and the Shah's with its Savak, and maybe we'll have a clearer sense of how Iranians fare today compared to under the Shah's yoke?! Let's never forget history. For “He who forgets history is condemned to relive it”.
I talked a couple of times with Iranian expats who had experience of both regimes and it was more or less like there is nothing to compare as the Islamic revolution was an absolute disaster compared to the Shah regime. The professional literature I happened to see about Iran is also in agreement that no objective causes for the revolution can be positively identified as Iran was by far more developed and tolerant under the Shah than any other country around, let alone compared to the Islamic republic. In fact, this is one of the most common observations one can found in almost any article dealing with this issue - that the oppression and economic deprivation the Islamic regime inflicted on the population have surpassed the Shah by orders of magnitude and yet it did not provoke any revolution. So much so that one of the theories offered to explain this paradox reasons that rapid economic growth and social transformations are destabilizing in their own right and this is what got the Shah.
As to one Iranian I happened to talk to, he has a very simple explanation: Khomeini promised us mountains and my parents and others were naive and stupid enough to buy into it. We have simply lost our minds for a while. But once in, these mullahs are very hard to get out.
Hey Bruno! I understand you think they shouldv'e waited? These demonstrations shouldn't have happened because the people had too much to loose and therefore lacked the motivation to see it through? Possibly. My stepfather, originally from Hungary, remember the failed protests against the Russians in the 50s when he was a boy.
Re your comments to Nobody about his perception of Islam being very "just like the rest of the west" I think you're overeacting. It is true, the west do have a negative view of Islam,(as we could see in Europe where several far right parties got elected) but the picture is more nuanced than than that. There are plenty of people in the west that doesn't have an this simple view on Islam. And few people in Europe think of these greens as "bunch of savages that take to the streets", far from it, in Sweden and the UK they're basically heroes. (I'll doubt very much we'll help though, sadly.)
At last, you seem to think that that the oppression is only part of Iran's problems. Care to elaborate?
Helen
Hi Helen:
The global media, obsessively focused on the initial demonstrators — pro-Mousavi—failing to notice that while large, the demonstrations primarily consisted of the same social class of people demonstrating. Amid the breathless reporting on the demonstrations, reporters failed to notice that the uprising was not spreading to other classes and to other areas. In constantly interviewing English-speaking demonstrators, they failed to note just how many of the demonstrators spoke English and had smartphones. The media thus did not recognize these as the signs of a failing revolution.
And in this frenzied biased reporting by the western media, some young kids were duped to believe in a wind of 'freedom' bowing over the streets of Iran and were called to ride it. Unnecessarily risking their lives!
So what i was merely suggesting is for people to be aware of the media commercial reporting of important news events and the many illusions they create (they are after all for-profit organizations). I say beware of the politician too quick to have you take to the streets to satisfy his electoral ego while resting in the comfort of his electoral HQ!
I also realize that i have not provided any room in my comments for the few ones who care enough to avoid the stereotypes about Islam. But i was again referring to the western media portrayal of Islam in general and in Iran in particular. As Nobody says himself: "Westerners are used to see crowds shouting Allahu Akbar demonstrating against..." If you check the coverage accorded to Iran during and in the following years of the Iranian Revolution, all the images that came from the news outlets were of people looking haggard, bearded or scruffy, speaking some weird sounding language.Today you see throngs of beautiful people demonstrating, dressed in the latest European fashion and totally fluent in English!
But i do agree with you, not everyone in World has so monochromatic a vision of Islam.
I hope I answered your questions.
Respectfully,
Bruno.
mm, I think you're on to something, if you're talking about the lack of responsibility of the media. There's always a narrow line there- on one hand, you want exciting pictures, an interesting story to tell, on the other hand, you'd need to be more inclusive of the whole picture, putting things in context. Maybe this uprising didn't have enough support among all classes in Iran..Anyway, Britain and Iran have expelled each others diplomats now, so apparently we're heading towards a cold war.
best, Helen
I also realize that i have not provided any room in my comments for the few ones who care enough to avoid the stereotypes about Islam. But i was again referring to the western media portrayal of Islam in general and in Iran in particular. As Nobody says himself: "Westerners are used to see crowds shouting Allahu Akbar demonstrating against..."
Bruno
My point was not that the Western media is distorting the image of Islam. The Westerners are used to see these crowds in contexts like these because this is where one can usually find them. Please do me a favor, I don't want to be associated with cheap moralist poseurs the style of you and Helen and other human trash produced in quantities by the modern Western culture. Don't drag me into this shit as I have nothing to do with this thing.
"you and Helen and other human trash" :D :D. Seems like someone's peed in your hummus Nobody....
Anyway you misunderstood him completely, Nobody. He didn't associate you with "cheap moralist poseurs", he juxtaposed you to them.
Helen
Thank you very much for your intervention Helen. I really wasn't going to respond to his comments though.
For once because as you said, he totally misunderstood me. It was obvious from his previous remarks already.
Second, because as a general rule of thumb I always dissociate and distance myself as much as possible from people who are absolutely incapable of having a civilized polite disagreement between fellow human beings.
See, i truly believe that one of the major reasons why societies in that region in particular, and in the Muslim Ummah in general are held back from genuine beneficial progress and advancement, is that we have totally forgotten the discussion and disagreement methodology and etiquette taught us by our beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Not all disagreement are blasphemous. Not all disagreement are existential in nature. Not all disagreement, if any, are worth raising one's voice or taking the high ground.
1. By the time, (Allah swears by the time)
2. Indeed, mankind is in loss,
3. Except those who believe and do righteous deeds and recommend one another to the truth and recommend one another to patience.
The Quran, Surat Al-'Asr (Chapter 103-The Time)
Some people like to make things always very personal and belligerent using foul language.Do they hope to convince? Do they hope to accomplish something? what's really the point?
In their fit of anger and foul language there is no sign of good deed, nor truth, nor patience!
Thanks Helen.
Hey Bruno,good rule. I disagree with this though: "we have totally forgotten the discussion and disagreement methodology and etiquette"
Most muslims guys I've read on the internet, you, Mohammad, for instance, are very polite indeed.
Have a nice wekeend!
Helen
Anonymous said...
"you and Helen and other human trash" :D :D. Seems like someone's peed in your hummus Nobody....
Anyway you misunderstood him completely, Nobody. He didn't associate you with "cheap moralist poseurs", he juxtaposed you to them.
Helen.
For one, Helen, I don't eat so much Hummus. Another thing is that I can only by marveling at your incredible ability to identify on every thread another narcissist with whom you can indulge in your a la Mahatma Gandhi moral posturing. I remember once asking you on Nizo blog as to how you manage to reproduce this feat on just about every thread you visit. Well, now I suppose that some people just naturally have it
:D :D
Bruno said...
Some people like to make things always very personal and belligerent using foul language.Do they hope to convince? Do they hope to accomplish something? what's really the point?
In their fit of anger and foul language there is no sign of good deed, nor truth, nor patience!
Thanks Helen.
I was not trying to convince anybody but just to make you shut up. By the way, it's no coincidence that when I challenged on you on your contention about the Islamic Republic's many achievements, this did not lead to any factual discussion but instead produced this sudden outburst of Muslim piety. Clearly, you spent more than your share of the space on this blog blaming other people in being misinformed and simplistic. Suddenly somebody semi invited you to say something of substance on the issue. Farting our beloved PBUH in all directions is the only response the likes of you can produce in such situation.
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