Yes, you.
Who, until this morning, thought that 'Shiraz' was just the name of a wine
Who's beaming with pride you can now write 'Ahmadinejad' without copy-and-pasting it from a news website
Who only heard of Evin prison when Roxana Saberi was there (Roxana who?)
Who changed your Facebook profile picture to a green rectangle saying "Where's my vote?" even though you don't actually vote in Iran
Who actually thinks that Mir-Hossein Mousavi is a secular
And that his election means that Iran will give up its nuclear claims
And allow you to visit Tehran for Christmas
Who joyfully makes Azadi/Tiananmen square comparisons
Who first heard of Azadi square last Sunday
Who's quick to link to articles you haven't read, debunking other articles you've barely heard of
Who has just discovered that Iran has a (quasi-)democracy, and elections, and the like
Who blinked in disbelief at the images of women - oh, they have women! and they're not in burkas! - demonstrating
Who has never heard of Rezai or Karroubi before (hint: they ran for election in a Middle-Eastern country last Friday)
Who staunchly believes that the elections have been stolen - either by ballot box stuffing, (14 million of them!) or by burning some ballots, or both (somehow?), regardless of the absence of any proof (yet)
... But who nevertheless
Has been tweeting, and re-tweeting, and polluting cyberspace with what is essentially hearsay, rumours, and unconfirmed truncated reports or falsification coming from people who actually know about the realities of Iran's political world and have an agenda:
You know nothing. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing about what happened, or is happening across Iran at the very moment. Most of us don't, actually. What we see is a tiny slice of reality, mind you, what is happening on the main squares in the big cities, under camera lenses.
I hear your objection though:
Yes, you are entitled to an opinion, to formulating it, to blog it, and to discuss it. I do that too. (this my blog after all).
But do everyone, and you first and foremost, a favour.
Learn from the people who know a thing or two about the issue at hand.
Be selective about you read, listen to, and watch. A simple way is to follow an Iranian friend's updates and the links they put up.
(Even the State Dept is reading tweets from Iranians.)
Ask questions more than you volunteer answers.
And when you get a tweet that says UNCONF or 'can anyone confirm?', for Pete's sake, that says "This is potentially bullshit". Don't spread nonsense. Don't spread unconfirmed or unsourced information.
And rather that getting all excited following live some current events taking place in a country you probably cannot place on a map, read analysis of what it means, what the candidates actually stand for, and what the result will mean for the Iranians and the world.
Then, I would be delighted, truly, to read what you have to say.
Until then, please, pretty please - SHUT UP.
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
As for what I think? I don't know. I think the results could be fake - and they also could be real. We probably will never know.
And I don't think we're watching a Ukraine '04 redux or a 'Green revolution'.
And I think that the people on the street will tire of getting beaten up by a government that is currently revoking foreign media licenses and will forfeit. We're - well, Iran is - likely stuck with Ahmadinejad for four more years.
And while the troubles on the street are unlikely to lead to a change of government, they'd have had the benefit of showing the Iranian people in a new light - they're normal people, only with more courage than most of us have.
(update: Primer Palabra has translated and made this post available in Spanish.)
Update: Kabobfest has also featured my article!)
Who, until this morning, thought that 'Shiraz' was just the name of a wine
Who's beaming with pride you can now write 'Ahmadinejad' without copy-and-pasting it from a news website
Who only heard of Evin prison when Roxana Saberi was there (Roxana who?)
Who changed your Facebook profile picture to a green rectangle saying "Where's my vote?" even though you don't actually vote in Iran
Who actually thinks that Mir-Hossein Mousavi is a secular
And that his election means that Iran will give up its nuclear claims
And allow you to visit Tehran for Christmas
Who joyfully makes Azadi/Tiananmen square comparisons
Who first heard of Azadi square last Sunday
Who's quick to link to articles you haven't read, debunking other articles you've barely heard of
Who has just discovered that Iran has a (quasi-)democracy, and elections, and the like
Who blinked in disbelief at the images of women - oh, they have women! and they're not in burkas! - demonstrating
Who has never heard of Rezai or Karroubi before (hint: they ran for election in a Middle-Eastern country last Friday)
Who staunchly believes that the elections have been stolen - either by ballot box stuffing, (14 million of them!) or by burning some ballots, or both (somehow?), regardless of the absence of any proof (yet)
... But who nevertheless
Has been tweeting, and re-tweeting, and polluting cyberspace with what is essentially hearsay, rumours, and unconfirmed truncated reports or falsification coming from people who actually know about the realities of Iran's political world and have an agenda:
You know nothing. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing about what happened, or is happening across Iran at the very moment. Most of us don't, actually. What we see is a tiny slice of reality, mind you, what is happening on the main squares in the big cities, under camera lenses.
I hear your objection though:
Yes, you are entitled to an opinion, to formulating it, to blog it, and to discuss it. I do that too. (this my blog after all).
But do everyone, and you first and foremost, a favour.
Learn from the people who know a thing or two about the issue at hand.
Be selective about you read, listen to, and watch. A simple way is to follow an Iranian friend's updates and the links they put up.
(Even the State Dept is reading tweets from Iranians.)
Ask questions more than you volunteer answers.
And when you get a tweet that says UNCONF or 'can anyone confirm?', for Pete's sake, that says "This is potentially bullshit". Don't spread nonsense. Don't spread unconfirmed or unsourced information.
And rather that getting all excited following live some current events taking place in a country you probably cannot place on a map, read analysis of what it means, what the candidates actually stand for, and what the result will mean for the Iranians and the world.
Then, I would be delighted, truly, to read what you have to say.
Until then, please, pretty please - SHUT UP.
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
As for what I think? I don't know. I think the results could be fake - and they also could be real. We probably will never know.
And I don't think we're watching a Ukraine '04 redux or a 'Green revolution'.
And I think that the people on the street will tire of getting beaten up by a government that is currently revoking foreign media licenses and will forfeit. We're - well, Iran is - likely stuck with Ahmadinejad for four more years.
And while the troubles on the street are unlikely to lead to a change of government, they'd have had the benefit of showing the Iranian people in a new light - they're normal people, only with more courage than most of us have.
(update: Primer Palabra has translated and made this post available in Spanish.)
Update: Kabobfest has also featured my article!)
77 comments:
Great post, Mohamed. I will happily 'spread' this on twitter. There is a credibility that comes with being authoritatively sarcastic, and so, as a 'credible and trusted source' can you post the names of the twitters/bloggers/etc who you trust? This is what is really needed. Especially now that geo-search on Tehran is useless.
Thx-
Thank you Mohamed!
Well it is all bullsh*t. The US has stirred up the region because and given people false hope.
They have no morals and do not give a sh*t if people are mown down on the streets to appease Israel and for the democratic lie.
Americans don't like democracy unless they can choose the candidate.
Everyday we are told about global warming and countries like Britain are going down the nuclear power route despite the cost because it is 'green'. Radiation or carbon? Give me carbon any day.
Anyway why should Iran be denied nuclear energy or nuclear weapons for that matter. Israel has them and they are murderous fundamentalists who believe that they have a God given right to a section of the Earth.
America has them and they are the only country to have used them in anger. So if we base ownership on precedence, the one country that should not have them is America.
Viva Army Dinnerjacket
great post. i've been watching this all unfold with similar thoughts in mind. i was just railing against the way people use social media, while it can be used to really amazing ends, to function as a way of communicating in real time and across vast distances, few people are critical about what/how they post, and merely are shouting to have their voices heard, regardless of the content, and usually without being informed.
anyway--thanks.
You are missing the point. Some day we will analyze the IP addresses, interview the participants, and perhaps determine what was real and what was not. But being an expert on Iran makes not an iota of difference in determining what is really happening right now. I'm sitting in my kitchen with my father-in-law of 20 years, who is visiting the states from his home in Iran. Do we know what is happening there? What is real? Of course not.
In the meantime it is the responsibility of those who *do* know Iran to educate those who don't. The number of people who now understand the People's Revolution, how elections work in Iran, who the players are, has probably double or quadrupled in the past 48 hours. Take this opportunity to educate while people are listening.
Hello everyone,
I promise to reply in more detail ASAP but I'm a little on the run now, so until then, some of the sources I follow on Iran: biased on unbiased, they report facts and interesting analysis (and that's all we need really :)
http://twitter.com/adoostdar
http://twitter.com/Kawdess
http://tehranbureau.com/
http://twitter.com/TehranBureau
http://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran
http://twitter.com/persiankiwi
One thing I don't understand... They keep saying that Ahmadi Nejad is the candidate of the poor . That he received most of his votes from the country side.
I don't understand what is the true difference between Ahmadi Nejad and Mousavi? Why would the poor elect Ahmadi Najjad? And how big the country side is when being compared w/the cities?
mainstream -
Thanks!!
I put up a couple of sources above. I might write a post with more sources later..
Mali -
Pleasure. You know you're my facebook source, right? :)
Hey, why don't you update the blog with those links?
theincrediblejulk
I fully agree, obviously. Interestingly, there is apparently a trend that government agents/supporters are posing for twitters and spread false info.. another misuse of the social media.
Anonymous
I've made that same 'the only country to have used nukes is actually the US' argument before..
though I would disagree that nuclear power necessarily involves a radiations disaster for civilians!
Nazgul
I'm not sure I completely understand. I was saying that we should be reading those who have a depth of knowledge in the issue. Most of us don't know who the activist groups are, whose statements are important and whose aren't - as such, I would surely love to learn from someone like, well, your father-in-law.
As for educating people as they're listening: I fully agree.
How should we go about doing that?
Khaled
I found an estimation of 61.3% urban, so a little less than 40% rural. Which is not a negligible segment of the population.
As for why Ahamadinejad enjoys such support in the poorer milieu: I don't quite know. Though my guess would include
- his own background; he comes from a poor family
- his own behaviour, going often to the rural areas, spending time with the electoral base there
- the windfall from oil (remember that just a year ago, last june, we had 150$/barrel oil); such windfall usually allows for more social spending and hence increased popularity of the leadership.
But Mo-ha-med, i was just joking!...why do you get so mad at me?!
Kidding apart, i like the few points you make about people readily willing to talk about what they don't know or studied. It's so easy in the century of super fast internet connection and social networking for people who've just learn to read and write to voice opinions with the authoritative tone of pundits and specialists (and i include those last 2 groups too in that category of arrogant ignorants). I've just heard Ali Ansari speak about the recent event and although the guy is a 'leading' expert on Iran and has got a PhD and is able to make a few good points, it is scary to see how his perspective can be at time polluted by western orientalism !
But it's hardly new. It's human nature. Had some Iranians known that the CIA was behind the overthrow of Mosadegh, maybe they wouldn't have been taken to the streets to push for his resignation. Maybe today some in the streets of Tehran ought to stay at home when they have no other evidence of foul play than sheer emotions and sentiments. But that's the risk one runs with popular democracy! Ask the descendants of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI!
And it's probably why the British saw some wisdom in an Enlightened Monarchy?! It is hard to have a clear full comprehensive picture of what is taking place, the difference sociological, economical, psychological process unfolding in one's brain, let a lone in a whole country of over 70 M inhabitants! But some journalists were very quick to forecast the winner way before the Iranians themselves had spoken!
An other issue i find troubling is the mistake we all make, in the west and in the east, when it comes to democracy. We always make the assumption when we utter that word, to have a clear, definite idea of what democracy is! But i'm not sure that Democracy as a political philosophy is a concept so rigidly and eternally defined. If one studies the evolution of the idea of democracy through the centuries and civilization, one would quickly realize how fluid and open a concept. The French for example define democracy as a system that gives women the right to abort, and forbids others the right to wear a veil. For the French, the US are not a democracy!
Anyhow, i hope i didn't come across too much as an 'Iran Expert' and bore you to death. I just like the way you Mo-ha-med stimulate me intellectually!
And i love when you get mad!....next time, we 'fight and then kiss'...lol!
Peace.
Bruno.
Sarcasm shouldn't be used as a bludgeon. It should be used as a rapier.
You used it as a bludgeon, weakening rather than strengthening your message to the untold many who visit this blog today and who disagree with you.
Steven, I don't see any sarcasm in this post. Perhaps you mean anger? But even the anger is, I think, used her in a constructive manner. It wakes the reader up.
To anyone reading/posting on Twitter, please do take a moment and view this brief comment (whichever position you favour):
Comment <== Hyperlink for addy below
http://tinyurl.com/lucpe4
.
Dmitrijevic_66, your link takes readers to what is known in English as a "conspiracy theory" site, also known as a hate site.
If you really think that the Israeli government used Twitter to galvanize millions of Iranians to demonstrate on the streets and risk their lives, you're not sufficiently intelligent to be reading this blog.
Rumors are OK. a fake election needs some rumors or I should say deserves that.
Anonymous --
And if you're so naive as to think that the Israelis and Americans do not have spooks agitating on Twitter you're not intelligent enough to be let outside your crib.
.
Sorry Anonymous, I accidentally left my name off the above post. Here it is again:
And if you're so naive as to think that the Israelis and Americans do not have spooks agitating on Twitter you're not intelligent enough to be let outside your crib.
.
Bullshit!
Man, be happy people actually still give a shit. Obviously, you're absolutely right when it concerns journalists. I've been to Iran reporting on a couple of stories and I'm keeping my mouth wisely shut nowadays. But if you're talking about the blogging buzz and the twitter fuzz, man - just be happy they're still a couple of people left in the universe that actually give a shit!
So, Dimitrijevic_66, tell us, is it really true that, like, the Mossad and the CIA were really behind 9/11 and that they blamed it on the Arabs because they wanted an excuse to invade Iraq? 'cause I, like, heard that was true. You know that none of the Jews who worked in the WTC showed up for work on 9/11, right? Except the ones who died, of course.
I'm actually quite happy that people are taking an interest. Yes, most twitterers don't have a clue, but at least they're learning, and hopefully learning how to discern truth from fakery.
That people are taking an interest in politics is a wonder in itself.
Either way, I liked your post, it did make me laugh... I'm afraid I am one of those people who does need to cut and paste whathisname!
Love it! And it needed to be said...the world is overfull of 90-day-wonders with expertise in whatever-the-topic-of-the-moment is....
...and this does prove, I think, that what we now call "news" is really just hyperlinked cyberspace gossip for the most part. We should now replace that old Sixties bumper sticker "Question Authority" with a new one: "Question Everything."
Rural v urban: my info is 30 years out of date but my Iranian friends in university told me that the split back then between the socioeconomic groups was not just financial but philosophical/religious tradition. Tehran, for example, was full of middle-class and upper-middle class well-educated and well-traveled people with very "western" ideas (like sending your daughter to college) and while Moslem, were more casual about practice than people in rural areas...whose sons and daughters did NOT go to college or much past 3rd grade for that matter. Poverty, lack of education, strong adherence to religious tradition and a contempt for city folks who didn't so adhere, coupled with a distaste for all this "modernization" (i.e. girls who go to college and even wear jeans!) left a vast gulf between the urban and rural populations. It appears from things I read that this gulf is still there, and Ahmadinejad appeals to this base. He does NOT appeal to the middle class which is floundering economically with hideous inflation and devalued money--he had their support in the past because he promised to reform the economy and instead no one's children can afford to get married and buy a condo, and working people can't afford basic necessities (like gas for the car).
Hey, if we're going to have conspiracy theories, let's take my favorite: Ahmadinejad is actually a Mossad mole planted to encourage the rhetoric of nuclear genocide so that when Iran finally detonates an atomic bomb, all the Arabs from the West Bank to the Euphrates will flee and the Jews will start building settlements in Falluhjah.....I laughed out loud at this until I realized that out there somewhere was probably someone who would believe dreck like this....
The silver lining: people are paying attention to what's happening in Iran instead of merely digesting what "analysts" of various governments, lobbies, NGOs etc tell us what is happening in Iran. Some of them may be confused enough to actually study the history of Iran and its political metamorphosis. Some might even learn about Mosadegh (Bruno already knows) and (more)western meddling in the region over oil....
One thing you have forgotten in your post when saying it might show Iranians in a new light, is that Iranians are always protesting. have we forgotten the protests a few years ago? I think so. And people will forget these a few weeks after they end with mainstream news going back to depicting Iranians as crazy maniacs. They are much more expressive and courageous in the streets than a place like the US.
Hello everyone,
Bruno -
Yeah, perhaps I should get mad more often then..
Ah, so you're a 'benevolent dictatorship' type of guy i see! - I'll invite you to my nation-state once i create it.
As for democracy - well I'll take the basic definition: majority decision.
Steven -
I had to look in the dictionary for 'rapier'. I don't agree that I 'used it as a bludgeon' but alright, point taken. Thanks for dropping by!
Lisa -
Thaaaaaaank you dear. :)
Dimitrijevic_66 -
That people create new Twitter accounts b/c Twitter happens to be one of the few still unblocked websites, i don't find that strange. Actually, if doubt there is regarding some new Twitterers, it's that they may be in the Ahmadinejad camp.
As for the Jpost mentioning them - well the Jpost is a third-tier newspaper, where any idiot or intern can publish their nonsense.
So, yep. Conspiracy theory, I'm afraid.
Anonymous -
Rumours can only be counterproductive...
@obk -
I'm with you - but the problem is that, when people rely on, well, other people as a source of info, then we are all responsible to maintain a minimum of quality to the information that we are each responsible for spreading.
Oliver -
I constantly mess up his name as well - i substitute an e for an a. :)
As for them learning - well can they learn, well, quietly?
I guess you're right, people are taking an interest... but do they know in what exactly? It is not a revolution! Even under Mousavi, Iran won't be very different from what it is today!
Aliyah06 -
thank you!
But, 'question everything'? Where do we get our information then?
Maybe Ahmadinejad appeals to the 38% of the rural population - that doesn't give him a 60%+ majority!
As for him being a Mossad mole.. I knew it! That's why he never threatens people on a saturday! :)
Anonymous
But these will be remembered as 'good' protests! Protests for 'democracy' and 'freedom' and what not!
Bush/congress approved $400million to disrupt the Iran Election.How about the Israel spies caught. How forgetfully America is or very Ugly :^(
Hi
Thanks for posting this. I agree that people are getting too passionate and it will only spell chaos for the Iran People.
And about the police brutality, it is a bit too faced for the western media sources to talk about police brutality. Just look at what happened recently at the G20 summit in London, and countless other peaceful protests in the USA, home of the free apparently.
Anyway, here is a wonderful article explaining just what sort of scheming is going on in various parties in the Iranian Power structure. It is written by an Indian diplomat with insightful detail.
Take a read
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BHA20090616&articleId=13996
complete bullshit. it's important that people care and if they cannot discern who talks bs and who the truth then tant pis. the important part is that the guys in iran know whom to trust.
even though most people don't have damn clue about the political history of the region, iran, or any places there, they now care and this is important. it may well be encouraging to the guys out on the streets and maybe give them the strenghts to hold out until we actually know who won.
i tend to be very cynic as well and we may well see the whole thing falling down and ahmadi rule until he is deemed to much of a nuisance, but well may be not and for that maybe it's worth showing concern and providing at least moral support and an overflow of twitters.
it's ideas and opinions that change history!!!
America's sudden pavlovian response to the Iranian election scandal is heartening in a way, but remember, Americans are here in NYC demonstreating against David Letterman.
Just wanted to thank you for your honesty and clarity on this whole Iran/tweeting thing.
For hours @ HuffPost, I was glued to reading info from INSIDE.(who wouldn't be?) But the TONS of "bullshit" inbetween...made me want to THROWUP.
Anyway..thanks again.
While I think some of your above points are valid, I don't think it's ever a good idea to squash discussion or turn away passion. I get what you are saying, but a lot of it is done out of good intent. I'd prefer the ignorant chatter than the apathy, frankly. At least it allows further points, conversation, and education to occur.
Thank you. The "STFU" really needed to be said. Also, I think the Western media is acting WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY too invested in outcomes to be trusted. Discernment and silence advised all around.
If our government hadn't lied us into invading Iraq, maybe we would believe that it isn't trying to destabilize Iran.
As someone who just doesn't get all of this Twitter business I somehow feel "spared" from what seems to be some kind of tidal wave of gossip. Maybe that's the wrong word, but I just really wanted to say great post.
I like to make my own mind up about things and I've lived overseas through a revolution and a war and know myself that the reality as perceived by the outside world can be by design. I wonder how many of these "enlightened masses" actually took the time to listen to Ahmadinejad when he visited the UN, for instance, or at the recent conference with the spontaneous (can we call it that? no? ok) walk out. It's a pity that he is snubbed by western leaders before they even listen to him, and the headlines made on such occasions always trump the real message in his speeches.
For what it's worth, and I've listened to and read his speeches, I do know that Ahmadinejad will understand exactly what is going on and will sort it out. I did read a piece where a pre-election phone poll (in Farsi) pretty much predicted the result they got which, if true, creates a bit of a problem - if the election results do actually bear out the wishes of the majority of the people (a lot of whom don't have fancy jobs and the internet) then this could rumble on and on, and Mr AverageWhiteGuy will always only hear a one sided story.
Don't forget the people that think Iranians are Arabs.
Great piece...I know a decent amount as far as Iranian politics goes, but I also know that it's jack squat compared to the average expat's distant memories and I keep my halfassed opinions to myself. 30 years of propaganda and what have we got to show for it?
And I also love the newfound humanitarian concern from people that wanted to reduce the place to radioactive dust a week ago.
Anonymous 02:09
Thanks for the article, very interesting indeed.
As for police brutality - well it does happen everywhere, but with 8 dead people on Monday, that's 8 dead too many...
Anonymous 02:17
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that people are taking interest in the thing and, as I wrote, I'm happy to read opinions and such - on the condition that they be based on at least a little knowledge. Virally passing on rumours or sharing half-baked opinions about stuff is of no help.
Yes, ideas and opinions - but those of great men and women who stood beside their ideas and fought for them. Not of random wankers sitting behind their computer screen.
Maasanova
Heartening, sure - but it's important it doesn't turn into damaging.
Ah, the Palin daughter thing? is that still boiling?
Anonymous 02:59
Thank you!! Info from inside is compelling, insightful, and available - people should spend more time reading and less time writing bullshit!
Ziah V
I'm not trying to squash discussion - but to raise the level a notch. It's not too much to ask of people to know what the heck they're talking about, no?
HPS
Hahaha, thanks!
More than 'too invested', too biased, too. We still have no evidence of wrongdoing - how many channels are reminding their viewers of that?
Anonymous 04:38
We'll have to wait and see, but i really don't think the US is involved in that in any way.
Anonymous 05:20
You should join Twitter. It's a big nice beautiful mess, and you can used to it pretty quickly. :)
Ahmadinejad is not stupid. (well, sometimes he's a complete dickhead..) And I think he'll weather the crisis. There won't be a second election, and he'll get his second mandate. And when that happens, he'll be, to us abroad and to our media, the demon incarnate. And then, people will really walk-out of his speeches before he even begins!
Anonymous 05:27
Ah, yes. Which upsets Iranians more than it does Arabs, I tell you. :)
Thank you for the compliment! Please do share you insights though...
As for humanitarian concern - whenever I see something like that, I remind myself of something i once learned: 'allies are not constant; only interests are'.
And what if I don't fit any of your characteristics, and agree that the "truth" is as yet unclear, but still thinks reforms are long overdue?
Great article, thanks for that,
the true evil empire or the dark vador is americ@. since the begginning every war every trouble come from them, south america, asia.
middle east central asia.
The BRIC countries and the Shanghai cooperation organisation are the answer against the sick politic comming from them(sick country,freemasonic)
Take care .
The ultimate insult to me is people using hashtags like #IranElection only to get into the trending topic/popular feed, but then has nothing to say about the topic, they just want to push their fraud sites, porn and money scams, or just in general get noticed by millions of people. How's THAT for cynical, and sad?
The chosen ones from Occupied Palestine wanted Ahmadinejad to win and he has!
So, they don't have to work out a Plan B.
Mo-ha-med: it's not so much that i favor a benevolent dictatorship ( although you can invite me to your 'nation-state' any time), so much as i am looking for a system that reaches the right balance between the concern for the masses and the necessity to have learned, educated trained people at the helm of one's country. I think we would all agree that when we see the stupidity and ignorance of some of our neighbors, we would easily have them barred from any decision process on what and how our own lives should be ruled!
The only difference between what we call today authoritarian regimes and our western democracies, is that in the first the leader can overrule popular opinions w/o much difficulty, whereas in the second, popular opinions are manipulated and shaped by the rulers and their huge communication/PR machine! (and still some idiots succeed in having a say in the conduct of my life! Bush got elected twice, Mc Arthur ruined the lives of so many innocents...etc).
In authoritarian regimes, one wishes that the leader will be enlightened and know how to strike the right balance (in many ways i think it is the case of Qatar and Saudi Arabia), in western democracies, one has to wish first that there will be an 'enlightened' candidate, and then that he will have the best most efficient PR/communication machine to shape people's perception and attitudes to win.
If you read Livy's Hisotry of Rome you realize that the fight between the Plebe and the Patricians is nothing new. The issue remains: how to reconcile both necessities. And i'm not sure we in the west, nor in the east, have found the solution, the right balance, just yet because we stopped looking convinced that we've reached the perfect Democratic system.
While I agree with you that there is an overwhelming number of "new experts" out there posting useless or even harmful info, or worse, reposting the same thing over and over and over but don't miss the silver lining here.
Iran is, perhaps for the first time for millions of people, being seen as not some backwards country with people living in mud huts with tin roofs but as a modern country with a burgeoning, intelligent middle class, with a more moderate approach to Islam than has been perceived and is more than simply the sum of it's ruling Mullahs.
As for what is going on there I take the Obama view, regardless of who is finally in power the same issues remain to deal with, nuclear technology/weaponry, support of Hamas and Hezbollah and influence in Iraq and a lesser extent Afghanistan.
But who wins the pissing match, Rafanjani or Khameneni is important to how the US and Iran will deal with these issues.
aliyah06 said...
Hey, if we're going to have conspiracy theories, let's take my favorite: Ahmadinejad is actually a Mossad mole planted to encourage the rhetoric of nuclear genocide so that when Iran finally detonates an atomic bomb, all the Arabs from the West Bank to the Euphrates will flee and the Jews will start building settlements in Falluhjah.....
Well, this is nonsense. You were obviously absent on all major meetings dealing with Iran. The idea was that he would destroy the economy sending the country bust and then the multinationals would come and buy the country piece by piece.
Well said, it needed to be.
Mo-Ha-Med,
You're right of course. Every Twitter entity who is agitating for revolt in Iran is exactly who he/she claims to be :)
Ho hum. 1953 repeats itself. And the masses cheer. It's called kissing the hand that whips you. Some people never learn I guess. Or, to be more charitable, their memories fail them. Best of Luck.
# # #
Preparing the Battlefield
The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran [and the program continues under the Obama administration]
by Seymour M. Hersh
July 7, 2008
Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to 400 million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership.
Full piece Here
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Oh! also did anyone notice the difference in the MSM approach and their portrayal of Iran this time around?
Most of the Iranians they interview, the pro-Mousavi camp mainly if not exclusively, are beautiful gorgeous bi-lingual (not this bi-lingual you pervert! although in Iran one never knows) boys and girls!
After the '79 Islamic Revolution, Iranians in western news reports were all scruffy, bearded, ugly looking (at least according to western standards)! An Iranian woman? you wouldn't even know what she looked like.
But now! i think my next trip will be Tehran!
So, I debated responding to your post. I am one of those Americans that has become fascinated by this process, I have RT'd some posts (mostly photos & videos). In this global community, I would argue that it is important for people to know what's going on in a growing power like Iran.
I do not and would not for a moment claim to be an expert on the situation or on the players. However, just the few days I have been an observer makes me far better-informed than most of the people around me. We Americans, we don't concern ourselves with the world outside much unless it impacts us directly. At this point in time, however, with technology and communication and trade where it is, is anything like this truly regional? I would submit that it is not.
Much as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so, too, is reality. I can't disagree or argue that the US might have had some hand in what is going, but for a moment, what of our perspective? Ahmadinejad (sp? *grin*, at least I tried) disavowed history and threatened to wipe his neighbors off the map. Considering Iran's history of fomenting unrest (in the form of Hizbullah), would it not be rational to suspect he would use any and all means at his dispoal, including nuclear weapons, to further his aims? Yes, the US is the only nation to have used nuclear weapons, but it would be nearly impossible to draw any real parallel between their use in WWII and their use against a neighbor now.
I can say that my attitude toward Iran (and perhaps Western attitudes in general) has not necessarily been against her people, but rather against her unpredictable governing body (incl. both Ahmadinejad and Khameini). Our understanding has long been that the will of the people was mostly irrelevant, for even if the rulers were not ruling with an iron fist, they still operated independently of the peoples' will. NOW, however, the Iranian people are showing that perhaps that is not the case. NOW, they seem to be showing that they want to be heard, they want their country to operate with their input and not without it.
Again, I write here not to attack but to better understand, and to perhaps gain some understanding in both directions. I look forward to any and all civilized responses.
Anonymous 08:32
Don't misunderstand my point: I am happy for everyone to formulate their opinions and discuss the topic, as long as they don't spread rumours, nor take their own fantasies for facts.
That's not too much to ask, is it?
Anonymous 08:33
It is true that the US are implicated in plenty of shit around the world - but that doesn't necessarily mean that they did it this time. :)
As for the BRIC countries.. i don't know. Why would I trust China or India as my new overlord more than the US?
Leila
Leila: yes, gosh, yes!!! And people tweeting about completely different issues - like this morning, about indigenous rights in Peru! - with the hashtag... argh!!!
Tariq
Maybe, but that doesn't mean they had anything to do with it.. I'm sure Ahmadinejad wanted to win even more than Israel wanted him to. :)
Bruno
Well you're stuck with limited democracy then - as it was done centuries ago, only people of a certain income or education level get to vote... which will be unacceptable for most.
Qatar and Saudi don't have enlightened dictators - just rich dictators who manage to spread enough of the wealth to make people forget about their political rights.
RIRedinPA
I agree!
And yes, many of Iran's main policy lines are unlikely to change, regardless of who's in the house...
Nobody
Dammit! We agreed you shouldn't disclose anything from that meeting!
Anonymous 15:28
Thank you!
Dimitrijevic_66
Not sure if that's 1953 - Ahmadinejad doesn't strike me as Mossadaq's heir...
Thanks for the link.
Bruno
Yes, CNN has discovered that, gosh, half of Iran is composed of women! (and pretty ones, with that!)
Wow, that's a pretty harsh view. Yes it's true that people are talking about things that they don't fully understand. Is that such a crime?
Isn't is good that people have started taking an interest in world politic no matter what the reason? The fact that they're even looking has got to be an improvement. And it's not like uninformed heavily polarized opinion isn't rife in even local elections.
I think the most interesting thing about the interest in the Iran elections is that many people are doing it purely because they want people to know they give a shit. And changing your icon to green does that. It doesn't claim expertise, it's just a simple easy act to show people what you give a shit about something. It's no worse than not knowing the horror of war and wearing the red poppy of the British Legion, or wearing a gay pride badge and not knowing the discrimination that many gay people use gay pride days to fight against.
Re-tweeting something you know nothing of is perhaps a worse thing, because you can't know that it's a reliable source, but what it does do is to get other people interested. It starts conversation and debate, and even uninformed debate is still far better than no debate at all.
To you who looking down from there on your horse has mistaken tenderness for shallow preening and posturing, so much so you seem too have forgotten the complexity of us. You do humanity a disservice by telling it to be correct or to be un-interested.
All I see is that this Election was / is the PERFECT opportunity for Israel and its puppet, U.S. to agitate and destabilize Iran more.
Israel ruled by the Hassidics (rabbis), rabid, bloodthirsty, vengeful students of the Talmud, which putsh forward their agenda, that non-jews are "beasts" - the agenda that hates everybody else. Per the law/instructions of Jehovah, the psycho.
Anonymous? Wow. DO you honestly believe Israel has enough clout and resources to foment THIS sort of upheaval? To think our host's original post was about not throwing around rumor and supposition ... you clearly are not adhering to that standard.
In contrast, is it arguable that Iran has, by proxy or directly, been attacking Israel for decades via support for Hizbullah and providing arms illegally to the Palestinians? Can you then vilify Israel for acting in some way against Iran?
You make great points. Ignorance is rampant.
But your indignant bitter hatred of people trying to find out more about what's going on is backwards. You should be glad people who were previously ignorant of your nation's plight are now, in some degree or another, learning about it, and openly supporting it.
"No one understands what I'm going through." is something children say. Teach us, and we will see.
Why not rejoice in the fact that people are finally losing their ignorance instead of spreading anger around? This is an opportunity, not only for us evil Westerners to learn about Iran, but for Iranians to learn that we are not so vile as their leaders and their media have portrayed us. Young Americans who grew up under the rhetoric of the axis of evil and who previously were only enthralled by democracy when it came to voting for American Idol are actually buying books on Iran in the hope to learn more.
Why can't you see that? We're all freaking humans and we all want freedom.
So yeah, I'm keeping my avatar green and I'm wearing my green shirt and I'm going to continue to go to the support rallies here in DC because I DO care about human rights. Take a step back from your anger and see that a lot of us do.
- Cathie, Washington DC
bebin,
bacche-har, you need to accept the hoob with the bad here.
people are just trying to komak karde, and those among us who know can sort through a couple bad tweets to bring out the good information.
in the time you wrote this geraftari filled article, you could have been helping people make proxies, or translating farsi tweets.
wheres the love?
Mo-ha-med:
I think you might be a little hasty and biased about Saudi Arabia and Qatar. If you look at the history of the Kingdom for ie, to this day, it has always strived to strike to balance between 'modernism' (whatever this means) with traditions (it has always been a delicate balance between the Al Shaykh and the Al Saud) I understand that some would like to see things happen faster, but honestly if i had to chose between the pace followed in China with the one followed in Russia or Romania, i'd go for a slower smoother transition. We know too well the horrendous atrocities of which masses are capable.(ie: Rwanda, Zaire, Romania, France in its time, Iraq more recently...the list goes on)
Furthermore, if you look at most of the people the Kings in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, at least the current ones, with whom they have surrounded themselves in the decision making process, they are people trained and schooled at the best institutions in the US and in the world. To name only one,because he is not only a typical example, but also one of the most visible to us westerners, His Excellency, Adel A. Al-Jubeir , Saudi Arabia Ambassador to the US, former advisor to the King: attended schools in the Kingdom, Germany, Yemen, Lebanon and the U.S. He obtained a B.A. summa cum laude in political science and economics from the University of North Texas in 1982, and an M.A. in international relations from Georgetown University in 1984. And have you heard him talk? There are great people working behind the scenes who are not after laurels, glory nor luxury. And even though they don't have the same media visibility and coverage that are given others in our MSM, we need sometimes to be more trusting and confident and less revolutionary. (especially when statistics show such a poor track record of the world history of revolutions)
There is a saying in Chinese that goes like this (i'm paraphrasing):
only the one seating at the top of the tower can have a clear view of the ins and outs of the labyrinth.
There is more on heaven and earth than is dream't of in your philosophy. This is more far reaching than any of realize, we all have a right to participate and own our own words. This groundswell in the Middle East has been evident to anyone from the "outside" visiting the "inside" anytime since the end of combat hostilities in Baghdad. The tanks indeed may roll as they did in Moscow. And opportunist party hacks like Yelsten may have their counterparts in Iran, smelling the political advantage to take a reformist route, and jump on the tank for a chance to run the show for awhile. The realpolitik calculus is going to come down to which faction can maintain stability and order in that part of the world. That's what Russia, Great Britain, US, Germany, France, Saudi Arabia, Egypt are really keeping an eye out for. And the jury is still out. The internet makes possible of course a whole new breed of armchair activists, but that of course is just how it is. Deal with it.
This is a great discussion, thank you for your view Mo-ha-med !
i largely agree with your point, but (big but) Twitter is a medium with true freedom of speech, that means not only the sensible, caring, and well informed people can and will use it, but everybody can.
This has a big downside: rumors run rampant, and people who want to do good will repost false information (unknowingly) for days. Off topic stuff and people who just want to shock find a large audience, unsuspecting of what they will be linked to or read.
It also has a big upside: and that is what you see here: it informs everybody of what is actuallyu going on, and combined with Flickr and Youtube that is a powerfull tool, open to anybody with a cellphone or computer. We are not all journalists who need to check their source before bringing news out. But we are all eyes for the rest of the world, with that cellphone and the link to Twitter.
every upside has its downside.
But the more people you can reach to filter and think before posting, the less confusing it will become, so kuddo s to you !
Jake
I would never assume you're attacking me, and I thank you for commenting.
Look, it's great that you, and I, and everyone are taking the time to try to figure out what happens there.
In a place like Burma, where opacity is very high and information tightly controlled, we simply don't have enough information to speculate about things so we don't.
For Iran, we just babble away.
Two more things:
- I doubt anyone in the world would nuke anyone. It's too dangerous. Even a big mouth like Ahmadinejad.
- You may remember a president Khatami who served before Ahmadinejad - he was and remains the poster boy for the 'reformists', and he supports Mousavi.
But he lost in elections to Ahmadinejad. The people had spoken then; this week we're just not sure what they said...
Fatredbird (wow, interesting username)
Again: no, people can talk about things they don't fully understand. They cannot, however, spread lies and rumours in ignorance.
People are free to change their icons to green. How that helps is beyond me, but eh.
Putting a green photo or what not is quite sensibly different from wearing a red poppy or a rainbow flag. When you wear a rainbow flag pin, you're walking among people, many of whom reject gay rights (to oversimplify); in that case, you are taking a stand, voicing an opinion. Expressing support to a candidate in a faraway country is, I'm afraid, pointless and of no use.
Now wearing a green ribbon in Iran, on the other hand, is a different story.
Anonymous 20:09
Actually Israeli officials have said that Ahmadinejad is a better foe for them than Mousavi.
And, irrelevant as that may be, rabbis do have a disproportionately large clout on Israeli politics, but they don't 'rule' the country.
Off-topic though.
Ted
I'm glad people are interested in Iran. I'm just not sure they know what they're watching, other than people getting beaten up.
Also, I'm not Iranian.
Cathie, DC
Iranians are far more politicised that Americans are, and have a much more accurate view of the rest of the world than Americans do.
Interesting point about "Iranians learning that (Westerners) are not so vile".
I would invite you to consider what Iranians who voted for Ahmadinejad will see you as - especially if it eventually transpires that the latter did win (we still don't know) but that we, as an international community, were marching in support of the candidate of our choice.
As for 'we all want freedom' - you may me smile. Ah, yes. Freedom. Is that what the unrest in Iran is about, 'freedom'? What kind of freedom in particular? Or is it the ambient political discourse around you that teaches that all other peoples seek the 'freedom' we have?
As for you joining rallies: much respect. I hope it helps. Truly.
Davyde
Yes, some of us can sort through the piles of nonsense; many people can't.
As for translating farsi tweets - I'm afraid I'll need to learn farsi first!
Bruno
I'm sure there are remarkable people in most dictatorships' administrations, but that doesn't make them any less tyrannical.
As for Gulf monarchies, I'll wait until the day the entire thing crumbles when the oil dries out. That will be both sad and funny to watch..
You had me until Nickelback.
?
Mo-ham-med (as that is what you go by here),
To an extent, I agree with you ... Ahmadinejad might be crazy, but shortsighted enough to risk a nuclear attack? Probably not, w/emphasis on probably.
And yes, I remember Khatami. I remember the world had high hopes for him, that he could better Iran's relations with the rest of the world. My feeling, though, is that the world forgets that above him, and pulling the strings whenever possible, is the Guardian Council. Ultimately, then, isn't the election somewhat irrelevant if the puppets change but the puppetmaster remains the same?
In this case, I would say no. It appears to this untrained eye that Mousavi - with seemingly clearly overwhelming support - might be able to make a difference, mostly because it appears that Khameini's power is slipping, if only a little bit. From what I understand, even with some large-scale protests over the years, the Guardian Council's power has never ebbed, but what if it does now? What would that mean? Do you have an understanding of where Montazeri fits in? (You have a better chance of understanding it than I do, thus my question!)
You've probably heard that there's no such thing as bad press, and I believe that applies here. Most of the time in the US when it comes to that region of the world, we're treated to scenes of violent protests, US and Israeli flags being burned, our Presidents burned in effigy. You are absolutely right, there is a TON of noise coming from the "#iranelection" hashtag, but before this week, virtually NOONE on this side of the world gave a damn. We assumed it would either be quashed in a bloodbath as has happened so many times, or it would just go away.
I RT'd this link (http://twitpic.com/7ki6e) yesterday afternoon. Within two hours, it had been RT'd out to over 50,000 people. Your people's struggle, their screaming (or silent) and PEACEFUL voices for change and freedom, whatever the definition, are being heard all the way over here. I am immensely proud of my country's record of peaceful changes of power every four or eight years, and I wish for that for the rest of the world. That is part of my definition of freedom, and we are truly seeing that grab a toehold on the streets of Tehran and Esfahan and Shiraz and all the other places I couldn't even name a week ago.
The silence on your streets is deafening. If that silence carried over to my part of the world, nobody would give a damn. Again. I think you're luckier than you might know for all this noise.
"It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate and fear, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms." --JOHN STOCKWELL
You clearly know the American people well. Too bad more of us are not as observant.
Check out this post by Sibel Edmonds:
Iran one Last Time: Twitter Works Both Ways
http://123realchange.blogspot.com/2009/06/iran-one-last-time-twitter-works-both.html
Your skepticism about the vote fixing is appropriate--but I believe the truth is unknown. It seems extremely likely that there was widespread election fraud. But we don't know how widespread. We don't know who really won. But whoever really won, it's virtually certain the margin was not as wide as the publicized results. My claim on being an "expert" is that I lived there 30 years ago, and some of what's happening seems like the old revolution all over again. The Iranian people still want the same things they wanted 30 years ago -- things that the regime change did not deliver.
Great post. Could´ve written it myself if it wasn´t for the fact that i feel like you´re talking about me. Thanks.
Mo-ha-med:
Freedom, Tyranny, Democracy...it's all very fluid and subjective.
I'm sure you can find a lot of people in tyrannical regimes who feel free, and as many in democracies that feel oppressed (ask a muslim french women whose right to religious freedom is not recognized by her government, and can't find housing or work! or ask an american citizen whose house has been taken over by the government under the 'eminent domain' law! or black/arab who'se been arrested just because he's black!)
If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep, you are richer than 75% of this world.
If you woke up this morning with more health than illness, you are more blessed than the million who will not survive this week.
If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, and spare change in a dish someplace, you are among the top 8% of the world's wealthy...
My point is that we in the west cannot prejudge what is it others in distant countries really seek the most. I'm not saying freedoms are useless or unimportant. But for God's sake, most of people in the world worry more about the ability to have a roof of their own over their heads, something to eat every day, good health and their basic needs fulfilled rather than 'democracy', whatever it means to us.
Do we really think that the most important issue for a Congolese right now is democracy? Tell him that today he can have a safe home of his own, eat daily, and be able to send his kids to school safely, with a fair opportunity to each for the future, with no corruption and the rule of law, BUT the leader will have to be a tyrant. And see if he'll turn the offer down!
Look at the Chinese people lately! the only time they are daring to take to the streets to confront their government is about corruption.
We cannot see the rest of the world through our own prism exclusively. And the catch word here is 'exclusively'. Again, i encourage anyone to read the history of Rome by Livy and you'll realize that within the Roman Constitution itself, there was a provision for a dictator. The word used in their Constitution was indeed tyrant. And it worked. They had many a good tyrant throughout their history to which they were grateful. So let's not prejudge and set the rules of our government structures nor theirs in stone. World History already showed us how presumptuous is this attitude.
Humbly Yours, ( i always wondered why in english we end our correspondence with 'yours'!? now i know....lol)
Mo-ha-med said...
Nobody
Dammit! We agreed you shouldn't disclose anything from that meeting!
Don't worry. It does not matter any more. The guy has done a real hell of a job. Regardless of who comes on top over there, it's over now. Yalla, now China !!!
What a ham-fisted sophomoric diatribe this was. I don't need to know anything about Iran in order to be dismayed at a government that will not allow peaceful demonstrations without truncheons and bullets. I don't need to know anything about Iran to be appalled at the brutality of a regieme that hangs gays or stones women to death. I don't need to know anything about Iran to know that the many trepidations against the people of Iran are inhumane and atrocious. As it is, as a political commentator, I do know some things about Iran, but the tone of your post is that I'm not supposed to say anything except to accept the status quo. Mo-ham-med, where is YOUR humanity?
See what i told you guys earlier "about people readily willing to talk about what they don't know or studied."?
They even go as far as to "ennoble" themselves with titles like: political commentator, pundit, expert...
The questioning of anyone's humanity without intimate knowledge of the person is an utterly arrogant premise to begin with.
Armed with their scholastic arrogance those "political commentators", "refuse to accept the status-quo"! Like they can make a difference! Yeah right! Go ahead! Take to the streets! Flood the internet with your fancy musical videos, Twitties and blogs! You will certainly change the daily lives of Iranians.
Who knows maybe one day you'll end up joining the ranks of the wannabe Ahmad Batebis. And if you're lucky enough, like he was, you'll go on signing tours, give lectures and interviews here and there, pocket a few bucks on the way. But in a few years fall in total oblivion like so many others throughout history.
History doesn't happen just because YOU are outrage. Change, evolution, revolution is a process that takes time and a few bright minds, no matter where they lead you. Otherwise, history would be made every day around the globe.
Furthermore, to acknowledge one's humanity is also to recognize and do with humanity's beauty and ugliness, with its every facets and shades, . It is certainly not to live in a dream world of romantic revolutionary fantasies, as appealing as they might be.
Geeze Bruno, I guess you didn't pass Rhetoric 101 or maybe you did with a D-.
If I was attempting to "ennoble" myself I would have put political commentator in caps (thusly: Political Commentator - in case you had difficulty visualizing that.) Secondly, it is something I do, not something I am. Just as I'm also a wood worker and a dad and I don't capitalize those either unless it leads the sentence.
"The questioning of anyone's humanity without intimate knowledge of the person is an utterly arrogant premise to begin with."
No more so, and in fact a whole hell of a lot less so than questioning one's motivation for posting on the travesty that is the current regieme in Iran.
"History doesn't happen just because YOU are outrage. Change, evolution, revolution is a process that takes time and a few bright minds, no matter where they lead you. Otherwise, history would be made every day around the globe."
Now, there is a glib argument for you. I bet you just loved Philosophy classes. Ahh, but did you learn anything? Oh, and by the bye History IS made every day, in every part of the world - It is probably just not momentous history. But then, who would have thought that Adolph Hitler being a failure as a painter might have fostered him as an anti-Semitic madman?
One last retort, sarcasm, to be effective, requires a little more pizazz than you have put into it.
Oh, and Bruno, I notice you said nothing about "What a ham-fisted sophomoric diatribe this was. I don't need to know anything about Iran in order to be dismayed at a government that will not allow peaceful demonstrations without truncheons and bullets. I don't need to know anything about Iran to be appalled at the brutality of a regieme that hangs gays or stones women to death. I don't need to know anything about Iran to know that the many trepidations against the people of Iran are inhumane and atrocious."
GM Roper:
A thousand apologies if i misread your comment. I apologize for the acrimonious tone of my comments, which made them more personal than they ought to have been. I know better. Sometimes i just get carried away.
Very specific issues that have been very well publicized in the west,like gays and women's rights, are not THE ultimate NOR exclusive benchmarks of a democracy.
If you take the issues of gays in Iran, women wearing the veil, or the stoning as capital punishment, you will have indeed a very bleak picture of the country that is Iran. A backward repressive and oppressive country still living in the Middle Age!
Just as that ignorant Frenchman from last night had a picture of Americans as heartless bastards who care just about money because he saw a documentary that led the viewers to believe that in America if you don't have health coverage, people let you die on the floor of the emergency room!
Again, to restrictively pick very publicized issues and make them the benchmark of democracy, and throwing at people's face a country's record on what goes wrong is not a very efficient way to make progress nor history.
YES Iran, or any other country for that matter, is not America
YES Iran is not perfect
YES stoning people for smuggling drugs into the country seems horrendous
YES police use sometimes excessive brutality to contain or suppress demonstration or riots... i agree with you!
BUT this is not the full picture.
People in America, France and other so called democracies are innocently convicted and rot in jails for decades without due process because they couldn't afford a good lawyer, or because of prejudice or a rotten judge. They loose their whole life in prison and sometimes also are sentenced to death. This is repressive and oppressive. Even in a democracy.
Yes, stoning might seem horrendous as a form of capital punishment. But so is the electric chair.
Yes the police in Tehran have at times used excessive force to contain riots. So did any other police of any other Democracies where i lived or visited. Deaths, brutality during riots/demonstrations happen in every country, not just in Iran.
Yes it is also appalling the way they hang gays. But so is the way Wayne Shepard was treated and countless others throughout history. Ask any gay guy living in a remote town of Alabama if he doesn't feel oppressed and repressed!
One has to look at the big picture and not limited exclusive issues. It's not gay rights nor women's rights that make America the great Democracy that it is! It's the whole Constitution! it's the right to bare arm! it's the the 5th, the 10th amendments and all the others.
I often lived abroad and experienced different countries, peoples and cultures. And I truly believe and feel that America is the best place to be, no matter what her flaws. But i don't go about the world telling people, you guys suck because you don't live like i do, because you don't have the "check-and-balance" principle incorporated in your constitutions, because you're not free to drink alcohol.
First because it almost exclusively leads to confrontation. Then because those issues are not the exclusive benchmarks of what makes a country great. And last but not least, because i believe that what was possible and worked in the US cannot necessarily be reproduced in other parts of the world. And that is the American Exceptionalism!
Anonymous 21:42
Good points about 'which faction can maintain stability and order in that part of the world'. As for armchair activists, well, it may be our job to try to hold them back a little...
Anonymous 21:56
Thank you! I guess we have to work both upstream (by trying to convince people to check the info they post) and downstream (by checking ourselves and weeding out the nonsense...)
Stephen
Huh?
Jake
Iran elections function within the cadre of the Revolution. So there is passage of power but within the same set of rules. Which is one of the reasons i can't understand why some people are so excited about these elections..
Is Mousavi's support really 'clearly overwhelming'? that's worth a check..
But i guess yes, noise is better than silence after all..
Thanks!
Claudia
Thanks for linking!
I'm guessing you're not talking to me because I don't recall making claims of CIA involvement in those elections! But yes, their role in foreign policy has been, for the least, very murky..
Thanks for Sibel's article, I enjoyed it.
Reb Barry
Hello good sir,
And even if Mousavi does take power, relatively few things will change. And 'the things the regime change won't deliver' seem to me like, well, they're not going to be delivered any time soon!
Erik
Thank you very much (and, err... sorry? :)
Bruno
On the 'democracy is less important than food' - I once wrote a post saying that people get involved in politics when they're rich enough, or poor enough. People barely getting by probably have other worries or, on a different levels, manage so barely to survive that they cannot risk reshuffling the existing order lest they fall into (more) poverty.
Nobody
We need a new meeting. The Cabal and Associates (C&A) needs to figure out alternative plans to take over the world.
I'd go for India first...
GM Roper
I must have responded to that critique half a dozen times already.
And, you don't seem to realise it but we're not in disagreement.
Yes, you are free to be dismayed, appalled, or whatever gerunds you wish to use. And to write it, and object, and everything. But one may not make claims about events currently unfolding if they know nothing. Why is that too much to ask, really?
May this comment find you well brother Mohamed.
Your critical thinking is very valuable in the cyberspace and I wish more people can do this kind of analysis. Thank you brother.
The key for not falling in any ideological/philosophical trap: "Our means are our ends".
Injustice anywhere is a threat of justice everywhere. It doesn't matter if this movement is sponsored by the CIA, the Taliban, God or the Universe of Love. Until we all are secure (food, shelter, clothing, free speech...), no one will be secure.
The energy in Iran is NOT about Mousavi. It's a rejection of the larger system of oppression and lack of freedom. The same happened when we took El Zocalo in Mexico in 2006 after the blatant stolen election. The movement was beyond the election: artists, scientists, peasants, young, old... it was (is!) beyond Andrés Manuel López Obrador.
I'm not saying the Iran election was stolen (as in Mexico), I'm saying that the new paradigm is not about putting the right kind of people in power but putting the right kind of power in people.
Have a ONE-derful weekend hermano Mohamed! :-)
If you want to be a rebel, be kind. Human-kind, be both.
In big smiles + big hugs + service + solidarity,
Pancho
Hey Pancho,
I like your point about the energy in Iran being about more than Mousavi.
But if those fellows are asking for Mousavi to become president - are they then asking for the wrong thing? Should they be shooting for MORE than just a new president, but a complete regime change? Just a thought...
One-derful weekend to you too!
GM Roper is a right wing jackass in the mold of Ann Coulter. Don't waste your time on him.
Great post, Mohamed! As always, you make me think.
Here's to unbiased journalism (never happen, but hey, we can hope right?) live IRL coverage of events as they happen by the people they happen to (completely opinionated, but still news right?) and us regular humans sifting through the whole thing to find "what really happened", and the re-enfranchisement (is that even a word?) of all fear based societies - including the US.
I'm suprised so many of us still care, but we do, and I'm still astounded at the outpouring of love and support for Iran (and Brazil and Honduras) that ordinary people from every country are showing.
"Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right." -Mahatma Gahndi
In my opinion, we're all growing, and learning. The twitter coverage of Iran, while very annoying at times, did give me hope that people did still care, that not everyone who comments on blogs is an apathetic asshat, and the knowledge that to me, the Iranians who have stood up and peacefully protested an election they felt was corrupted are some of my heros. And the people who blog about all of this so we can understand it better are also very patient and graceful with their insight into a culture that some of us were not born into.
I have found that the comments and conversation on this blog are filled with patience and a genuine effort to overcome basic cultural differences.
So, thanks - a very longwinded thanks, but thanks none the less.
"... But who nevertheless
Has been tweeting, and re-tweeting, and polluting cyberspace "
Priceless!
Anonymous, I.E.
Thaaaank you both. :)
This post is a great resource for anyone who wants to start a discussion on the issue. Police officers did not have sufficient training to tackle public disorder on the scale of the G20 protests. Authorities will be paying for police officers to protect delegates attending the September summit and to monitor protesters who could spawn violence.
http://mybookings.org/en/Marrakech-City-9176/
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